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[Oct. 22nd, 2020|03:46 pm]
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From:[info]mranarhs
Date:October 22nd, 2020 - 06:49 pm
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Kas tavuprāt šajā "sistēmā" ir upper management?
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From:[info]brookings
Date:October 22nd, 2020 - 06:55 pm
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Daži dalībnieki Event 201 varētu būt, piemēram
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From:[info]mranarhs
Date:October 22nd, 2020 - 07:18 pm
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Un tieši kā viņi var menedžēt kaut ko citās valstīs? Zviedriju tad laikam neizdevās nomenedžēt? =)
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From:[info]brookings
Date:October 22nd, 2020 - 07:23 pm
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Tu esi skatījies to eventu? Parunāsim pēc tam. Būs tev manuprāt interesanti.
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From:[info]mranarhs
Date:October 22nd, 2020 - 07:54 pm
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Skatījos, bet visu neesmu noskatījies, ļoti garš. Bet es tur neko TĀDU nesaskatīju. Nu, uztaisīja simulāciju pagājušogad, laika sakritība. Stokholmā pirms terorakta 2017.g. tieši bija mācības policijai, kā rīkoties teroraktu gadījumā. Ja nemaldos, 2 dienas pirms terorakta. Man tagad jāsecina, ka valdība sarīkoja teroraktu?
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From:[info]brookings
Date:October 22nd, 2020 - 08:30 pm
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Well, pay attention to what the World Bank rep has to say about 'returns on investment' for example.
The control of the narrative took about half of the event - I would say that is a high-level discussion on managing humankind.
The General (I think) thought it would be a great opportunity to collect Big Data on why we think like we do.
When nation states were mentioned, the high and mighty declared that they should be kept stable, but under control.
There should also be a central authority controlling the response, and we can see their message (Great Reset + Build Back Better) being repeated by heads of state.
I m looking at it at this kind of level.
Regarding terror acts and training events (911 for example), you are welcome to dive as deep in rabbit holes as you like :)
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From:[info]begemots
Date:October 22nd, 2020 - 09:41 pm
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You would like the world to be that simple, wouldn't you?
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From:[info]brookings
Date:October 22nd, 2020 - 09:46 pm
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You don't think there is and has been a trend for supranational control for some time?
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From:[info]gnidrologs
Date:October 22nd, 2020 - 09:53 pm
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These people WANT this control. And they imagine themselves as at least low level controllers, because they are so loyal to such establishment.
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From:[info]begemots
Date:October 23rd, 2020 - 12:27 am
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Trend, for sure. There are always people who are for that.

The difference at the moment, as, say, compared to 19th century Britain, 18th century Russia, and many others at the same as well as at different times, is that at this point in time, empires are frequently attempted to be built without much war.

I consider that an improvement.

As we are a physically small country and an underpopulated nation, our best bet, it seems to me, is to sail close to a strong, but not violence-oriented block, such as EU, and try to steer it, insofar, as we have any influence at all, along the existing status quo (that would be, away from too much federalization, and away from too much decentralization). And, by the way, the level of influence we have as a member of EU, is unprecedented for a country of our smallness.
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From:[info]brookings
Date:October 23rd, 2020 - 09:55 am
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Well it would seem we both share a desire to hold a simplistic world view, old chap.

There are, indeed, always people who are up for supranational control, and sometimes with rather unpleasant intentions. Regarding the EU and the 'upper management' that I alluded to higher up this thread, I would point out that they (corporations, banks and so on) constitute a formidable lobbying power on the Commission. I used to have to travel to Brussels a couple of times a year and if you got the bus from the airport you'd see the their HQs dominate the view.

As regards the influence Latvia has on the EU, I ought to point out that she has no influence on monetary policy, little influence on immigration policy (I'm referring to the majority vote in 2015), and if she is still part of the fiscal pact, little room for, let's say Keynsian economic policy. Regarding the Parliament she has 8 or 9 MEPS out of 751, so I am assuming that the unprecedented influence you state she has comes from the Council?

Back to the upper management: when I watched the Event 201, I saw a carve up of pie subtly negotiated by the interest groups. You could view it simply as that if you like. The extent to which their strings are being pulled (or not) is another question. One, I suspect you have an aversion to considering or discussing.
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From:[info]begemots
Date:October 23rd, 2020 - 10:33 am
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What you say is relatively true, regarding Latvia's current influence, but what are you comparing it with?

Do you think things would be geopolitically in any way better for Latvia, if it was outside EU? I would consider it a pipe dream, but I am open to arguments as to why that might not be true.

It seems best, if we could compare to some other country of more or less similar size, in Europe, outside EU. That gives us Albania, Serbia, Montenegro, North Makedonia and Moldova. I welcome comparisons.

I have no aversion to considering strings being pulled. I just don't see it as very productive, as (a) we have little reliable information, and (b) even if we have much information, what means do we have to do anything about whatever information we have? However, we can discuss whatever you would like to, for sure.

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From:[info]brookings
Date:October 23rd, 2020 - 10:39 am
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Might be nicer to do that over a beer or two than on social media :)

In general, though, and I suppose I am still stung from the 'simple-world-view' jibe, it seems that you agree with my point, more or less. I mean to the extent that a kind of supranational power exists, which obviously requires management that incorporates interest groups. That is pretty much all I had stated. I think it is especially important to recognise this when it comes to changes that will be brought about in our lives as a result of the reaction to CvD - i.e, for whose benefit are these changes?
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From:[info]begemots
Date:October 23rd, 2020 - 10:54 am
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Essentially I agree with you on that.

What might be the misunderstanding I caused, is that I don't believe in efficient supranational conspiracies whereby a small group of individuals pull the world strings with very meaningful goals (especially long term goals). That was the idea of my "world is not that simple" comment.

However, at all times there are groups and factions (especially those with already some power) who wish to impose things to their advantage on larger communities. That seems to me to be just the nature of humanity.
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From:[info]mranarhs
Date:October 23rd, 2020 - 11:49 am
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Well, and very little of this is actually being implemented. So many countries started messing with border controls and heavy travel restrictions, which is nonsense practically and only political signalling - as far as I recall from 201 they were against such moves. You see very few countries, like Sweden, holding against this trend.

Central authority? Oh boy, there is none, don't you see?
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From:[info]brookings
Date:October 23rd, 2020 - 12:00 pm
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Are there border restrictions on travel or freight?

The travel restrictions are there as a means of getting people to agree to bio ID, vaccine passes etc.

As for the existence/non-existence of central authorities, see my conversation with Begemotu (man slinkums atkartoties). I would just add that we are seeing WEF talking points like 'Great Reset' and 'build back better' finding their way into the lexicon of politicians - together with 'new normal', of course.
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From:[info]mranarhs
Date:October 23rd, 2020 - 05:21 pm
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I follow mostly Swedish news, and there has been absolutely no mention of such talking points, not even anything similar. There is a broad consensus that mild and acceptable restrictions, mostly in the form of recommendations, will be there for a bit longer time, through-out next year probably. That's about Sweden. Regarding Latvia I have to say I have lost patience to follow their news too closely, because so much idiocy is being said and done. I think the most spectacular was the public claim in May about how successful Latvia is in fighting covid. Now we see where this baseless self-righteousness has led.
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From:[info]brookings
Date:October 23rd, 2020 - 05:27 pm
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Not even 'new normal'? Wow, Sweden, eh? Who would have thought it?
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From:[info]mranarhs
Date:October 26th, 2020 - 11:07 am
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Nope, no such expressions in Swedish public domain.
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From:[info]gnidrologs
Date:October 22nd, 2020 - 07:02 pm
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Kas jebkuros laikos ir "upper management"? Tie, kam ir daudz naudas un varas. Cilvēki, ka iedomājas, ka dzīvo "demokrātijā" ir naivi. Tā ir tikai feelgood fasāde.
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From:[info]mranarhs
Date:October 22nd, 2020 - 07:20 pm
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Tātad tu saki, ka tā ir Baltā Brālība Himalajos?
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From:[info]gnidrologs
Date:October 22nd, 2020 - 08:12 pm
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Kas tas tāds būtu? Visdrīzāk nesaku neko tādu un tavi salmu vīri ir slapji.