Fri, Apr. 8th, 2005, 09:25 pm
[info]honeybee: rakstnieks un nacionalitāte

Biedri-draugi-brāļi, jūs mani nošokējāt. Iepriekšējā pollā no vienpadsmit variantiem ir atzīmēti tikai četri, pie tam visvairāk atbilžu savākuši varianti "amerikānis" un "francūzis". Nu labi, amerikānis varbūt, bet francūzis?!
Lai nu kā tas būtu - autors ir Volfgangs Borherts, vācietis. Stāsta fragments rakstīts pēc 2. pasaules kara, puisis ir bijis gana jauns (miris 26 gadu vecumā).
Žetons par pareizi atminētu tautību tiek [info]pavlix un [info]pzrk. Un, kas zīmīgi, viņi abi ir komentāros norādījuši, ka pievērsuši uzmanību valodas formai (vārdu izvēlei, teikuma uzbūvei, izteiksmes līdzekļiem). Bet vai tiešām atšķirība pastāv tikai valodā? Man šis teksts ļoti atsauca atmiņā Nīči un Bertoldu Brehtu, un nedomāju, ka tikai valodas formu dēļ. (Hmm, kāds no jums negrib iemest līdzīgu pollu? Man tīri vai žēl kļuva, ka es nevaru pilnvērtīgi piedalīties šajā eksperimentā.)

Fri, Apr. 8th, 2005, 09:41 pm
[info]barvins

Pieļauju, ka tiem, kas skolā mācījušies vācu valodu, bija priekšrocība;)

Fri, Apr. 8th, 2005, 09:49 pm
[info]honeybee

varbūt. lai arī tādā mērā jau tomēr mums visiem ir priekšstats par vācu valodu, rammstein tak visi esam klausījušies, lai pazītu šo mīlestību pret īsiem uzsaukuma tipa teikumiem, un nīči arī esam lasījuši, lai sajustu globālo atvēzienu?

un tu vari iztēloties šo tekstu angliski, tfū, amerikāniski?
btw, nevari iedomāties, kāpēc amerikāņus atzīmēja četri, bet angļus neviens?

Fri, Apr. 8th, 2005, 09:55 pm
[info]barvins

Nīči neesmu lasījis (fuj maniem draugiem, kas vienmēr pamanās grāmatas aizdot kādam citam), tapēc nevaru šo štelli komentēt.
Varu iztēloties amerikāniski. Piemēram, Vonnegūta stilā.
Angļi raksta (mm, tāds iespaids radies) izsmalcinātāk.

Fri, Apr. 8th, 2005, 10:11 pm
[info]honeybee

Nunu. Amerikāņi varbūt raksta īsi (tomēr Vonnegūts ir pamatīgs izņēmums), bet viņi ļoti reti raksta tik patētiski. t.i., kad amerikānis kļūst patētisks, viņš kļūst arī neciešami pliekans, vācietim tas iet secen. (lai arī šis te droši vien ir nepamatots stereotips no manas puses)

Fri, Apr. 8th, 2005, 10:33 pm
[info]barvins

Varbūt. Mmm, man nav pietiekami daudz datu, lai piekristu vai noliegtu.

Fri, Apr. 8th, 2005, 10:36 pm
[info]pzrk

Danke par žetonu! :)
Atzīšos, tas tomēr bija minējums, jo tās valodas, kuras nezinu, es neatšifrētu.

Fri, Apr. 8th, 2005, 10:40 pm
[info]honeybee

tad tu domā, ka āķis ir valodā, un tikai? Ja, teiksim, es iemestu fragmentu no Prusta vai Sartra, tu nenoteiktu, ka tas ir francūzis?

Fri, Apr. 8th, 2005, 10:46 pm
[info]pzrk

Ignorējot to, ka tas ir tulkojums, man vairāk gribas domāt, ka viss ir atkarīgs no tā, kādas valodas zina pats autors.

Fri, Apr. 8th, 2005, 10:52 pm
[info]honeybee

uj. paskaidro šito, lūdzu, netieku līdzi domas lidojumam.

Fri, Apr. 8th, 2005, 11:01 pm
[info]pzrk

Literārais darbs, protams, ir sarakstīts kādā vienā valodā, bet autora lietotie izteiksmes līdzekļi, manuprāt, stipri ietekmējas no tā, ko autors iepriekš lasījis. Ja viņš/viņa daudz ir lasījis citās valodās, tad, attiecīgi, to valodu ietekme ir pietiekami nozīmīga, lai būtu grūti uzminēt šāda tulkojuma "izejas valodu".

Fri, Apr. 8th, 2005, 11:10 pm
[info]honeybee

ahā. jā, tā varētu būt.
tip jo stulbāks autors, jo nacionālāks? :D

Fri, Apr. 8th, 2005, 11:28 pm
[info]pzrk

vai varbūt - jo nacionālāks autors, jo stulbāks? ;)

Sat, Apr. 9th, 2005, 08:32 am
[info]carnival

nez, es skatījos, ka viss tāds kā depresīvs, kas, liekas, 20. gadsimtā bija raksturīgs frančiem. labi, atā.

Sat, Apr. 9th, 2005, 11:46 am
[info]honeybee

vāciešiem arī. bet franči nav tik emocionāli, imho, franči ir atsvešināti vai jutekliski.

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