11 February 2023 @ 12:33 pm
:o  
Buutu debiili, bet ticami.. ja beigaas izraadiitos, ka visas problemaatiskaas not-sure-if-god-is-nice pasaules probleemas, ir saatana apseesto cilveeku darbs, un netieshas vai tieshas sekas. Ka dabaa viss ir perfekts un maigs, bet visas katastrofas un slimiibas un viss drausmiigais, ir kaut kaadu cilveeku chakaru sekas.
 
 
( Post a new comment )
Skabičevskis[info]begemots on February 13th, 2023 - 02:07 pm
The simple truth is that world has much more stuff that is not under control of humans.

The capability of humans to mess things up is tiny. We can kill ourselves in extinction, but the world will continue. With other animals doing unspeakable things to each other in the "perfect" world created by god.

As regards god, insofar as you admit that god is omnipotent and omnipresent, he has the ultimate responsibility for whatever he has created, including things that are not effect of human behaviour.

Your constant wish to absolve god of responsibility and to put it all on shoulders of humans is admirable.

It reminds very directly the way Germans idolized Hitler. After all, Hitler didn't kill a single Jew himself. However, for some reason we hold him the main responsible for Holocaust. This doesn't reduce the guilt of each individual Nazi, but there is a direct and clear responsibility of the ultimate leader.
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread) (Link)
[info]methodrone on February 13th, 2023 - 02:40 pm
The capability of humans to mess things up is tiny? Now, a claim like that is darkly admirable to me? And the fact how easily you and probably all humans abdicate their responsibility.

The uncomfortable truth is that bad things a lot of times don't just happen to us, we welcome them by not taking responsibility and avoiding the truth and avoiding putting in effort to fix things and do the right thing.

Of course I can speak only for myself, as I always do, and I know that the bad things that have happended to me are predominantly consequences of my choices, whereas the good things are often some sort of a miracle int he face of all bad choices I have made.
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread) (Link)
Skabičevskis[info]begemots on February 13th, 2023 - 04:04 pm
Tsk. The ability of religious people to make humanity (and by consequence themselves) feel important would be endearing, if it wasn't so infantile / sorry, couldn't resist. please forgive me ;) /

I do not abdicate my responsibility, neither that of other humans. As you might have read in my above comment, the fact that Hitler was Nazi leader, doesn't mean that each individual supporter wasn't responsible. What I don't get is that blaming ONLY of supporters, while ignoring the one who BOTH set the rules and apparently has both the OMNISCIENCE and the OMNIPOTENCE to do quite literally whatever he wants.

> The uncomfortable truth is that bad things a lot of times don't just happen to us, we welcome them by not taking responsibility and avoiding the truth

It is very true. However, your "uncomfortable" truth quite comfortably skips around ALL the other stuff that doesn't fit "your own fault" narrative. And I gave you ample examples of that in the previous comments. If god is omnipotent and omniscient, he does (or set in motion) all of the things which we don't. Which includes vast majority of things on Earth. And a lot of which we find incredibly cruel, for example.

As regards the place of humanity in world. Self-aggrandizing by assuming being god's children, while at the same time preaching humility seems pretty phariseic (to use terms of Bible). But each to his own.

Insofar as humanity is concerned, however, knowledge gives us its own version of uncomfortable truth (or approximation of that truth):

"We can take small comfort in one thing. Although right now we don’t worry enough about incoming disaster from Up There, we do worry a lot about home-grown disaster Down Here: nuclear warfare, biological warfare, global warming, pollution, overpopulation, destruction of habitat, burning of the rainforests, and so on. However, there’s no danger that human actions will wipe out the planet. Compared to what nature has already done, and will do again, our activities barely show up. One large meteorite packs more explosive power than all human wars put together, a hypothetical World War III included. One Ice Age changes the climate more than a civilization’s worth of carbon dioxide from car exhausts. As for something like the Deccan Traps … you wouldn’t want to know how nasty the atmosphere could become.

No, we can’t destroy the Earth. We can destroy ourselves."

// "Science of Discworld", Terry Pratchett.
(Reply) (Parent) (Link)