un kādas ir tavas klasificētāja intereses, ja drīkst apvaicāties? :)

kāpēc tev ir būtiski norobežot land/business-owners no varbūt vienkārši cilvēkiem, kuriem ir savs dzīvoklis?

un vai tam joprojām ir sakars ar middle-class?

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Manas intereses? Skaidriiba :)! Es tikko tulkoju vienu darbu, kuraa bija pienjemuumi par skiraam, kas neapmierinaaja mani (paraak daudz asocijeeju), un domaaju, ka vajag sho ojektivaak defineet.

Par tiem, kam ir savs dzivoklis, man ir jautaajums: kas ir, de facto, dzivoklja iipashnieks - tie, kas aiznjemas krediitu, vai banka, kas to aizdeeva?

Un ja cilveekam (kreditu njemeeji) ir jaastraada, lai atmaskaatu sho jkrediitu, tad, peec manas definicijaas, vinji ir darbinieku skiras paarstaavis.

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Es runāju par cilvēkiem, kuriem dzīvoklis pieder īpašumā bez kredītiem vai ar jau nomaksātiem kredītiem.

Ja runājam par Latviju, tad dzīvokļu kredīti ir, ap 20% iedzīvotāju, tad noteikti liela daļa dzīvo īrētos dzīvokļos, bet nu jau kaut kādiem 20% vismaz, manuprāt, vajadzētu būt arī savai mājai/dzīvoklim.

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Par to, kādā šķirā atrodās cilveki, kam ir savs īpašums (bez kredīta), man šķiet tas ir atkarīgs gan no viņu vajadzības, gan no iespējamiem ienākumiem no ši īpašuma. Ja viņiem nav lielu izdevumu, tas varētu nozimēt, ka viņiem nav jāstrāda citiem cilvēkiem, lai iztiktu - it īpaši ja viņi var nopelnīt no sava īpašuma.

Jo vairāk tas ir jādara (stradāt citiem ka darbinieks), jo vairāk viņi atrodas darbinieka šķirā.

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tad mēs atgriežamies pie jautājuma par klasifikācijas patvaļīgumu.

tu saki: visi, kas spiesti strādāt, lai iztiktu, ir strādnieki.
tad tev vēl laikam ir vidusšķira, kas acīmredzot ir uzņēmēji(?)
un iespējams kādas citas šķiras vēl arī?

es saku:

Fair enough, as long as your classification is exhaustive and non-overlapping, it circumscribes nice Euler circles.

The main question, however, is what would you like to achieve by selecting this particular way of classifying people: what is your purpose.

You mentioned clarity, but clarity in itself has really not much to do with classification per se. Meaningfulness according to some purpose would be a better goal for a classification, in my opinion.

Starp citu, kur paliek zemnieki? Strādnieki vai vidusšķira, vai kas?

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What would I like to achieve? I don't know, really. I don't like the subjective way most people judge class - especially how some of those from what they would consider the "educated middle class" think about the "uneducated working class". Far too many unfounded and rather patronsing assumptions for my 42 years - I am referring to the sort of assumptions based on tastes, education, vocabulary etc. Most of the brightest, most creative people I have worked with are working class with no formal higher education (both they and their parents).

A word about education, too: I have a degree in Applied Science, and an HND in Landscape Construction - the HND was more of a challenge im many ways then the "middle class" degree, and as for the masters here in Latvia (that I have yet to finish) - well really - it is almost too embarrassing to write about - I believe the term is "fufelis".

Finally, we are not talking about the "lower classes", we are talking about the WORKING class - the answer, I think, of how to judge who belongs in it, is in the title (which is why I prefer the term darbninieka šķira). Classically, the various classes have their lobbying bodies:

the financial and speculative classes (those who control the supply of money) are the most powerful - a look at those in power in the US (the so-called revolving doors at the Fed and the treasury) should be enough proof of that. The financial classes take this lobbying very seriously.

employer class - employer associations. Employers take their lobbying extremely seriously in my experience.

working class - trade unions. Most working people don't belong to them and most seem to actively disagree with what they stand for.

I think those in the working class shoould be far, far more active in the trade movement (and if you are looking for a secret motive, then this is it, I suppose) as without this their interests will be subordinated to those if the other classes. This is exactly what is happening here in Latvia.

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