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es atvainojos [Sep. 24th, 2014|10:30 am]
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From:[info]martcore
Date:September 24th, 2014 - 11:40 am
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"runāju ar ko" = akuzatīvs
"runāju kam" būtu datīvs
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From:[info]brookings
Date:September 24th, 2014 - 11:44 am
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jā jā Martin, bet 'runāju AR Jums' tāpēc ka jūs ir daudzskaitlis.

Vai.. vai tas ir iespejams pateikt 'vai es runāju jums?'

Vai es kaut ko neesmu sapratis - laikam..:)
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From:[info]dominika
Date:September 24th, 2014 - 12:10 pm
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'runāju ar jums' nevis tāpēc, ka daudzskaitlis, bet tāpēc, ka tu uzrunā šo personu, tā ir adresāts (skat. lejāk)
'jums' tāpēc, ka neskatoties uz to, ka pieklājības formā tas citus teikuma locekļus piesaista vienskaitlī, vārda paša locīšana nemainās
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From:[info]begemots
Date:September 24th, 2014 - 01:04 pm
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Instrumentālis.
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From:[info]brookings
Date:September 24th, 2014 - 01:08 pm
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jaa - of course - bet it has the same form as the accusative, doesn't it? With the plural form after a preposition it shifts to the dative form - beet, joprojam pastaav jautaajums kaapec 'juus' nevareetu but vienskaitlis tad, kad runaaju ar vienu cilveeku?
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From:[info]begemots
Date:September 24th, 2014 - 01:12 pm
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Because it is a word in its own right, and a plural word at that.

Consider:

Kalniņa kungs, Jūs esat cūka!
vs
Kalniņa kungs, Jūs esi cūka!

The second would be extremely hard on (at least my) ear, because we just were talking in plural form and we slam to the teikuma priekšmets in plural a verb in singular. Doesn't, as a rule, work in Latvian, I think.
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From:[info]brookings
Date:September 24th, 2014 - 01:15 pm
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Yes, but why is it always plural in its own right when we are addressing a single person?
'Juus esi cuuka' manupraat izklausaas burviigi :)

but okay...
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From:[info]begemots
Date:September 24th, 2014 - 01:20 pm
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That would be like saying "They is". :)
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From:[info]dominika
Date:September 24th, 2014 - 02:26 pm
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To me, it's kind of similar to English use of 'their', when you don't know if the person you're speaking about is male or female. 'Somebody left their bag here', for example. You're speaking about one person, but the possesive pronoun is in plural.
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From:[info]begemots
Date:September 24th, 2014 - 01:17 pm
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I think also, could it be that the plural form is exactly what stresses the politeness?

Consider that kings used to talk about themselves in plural, perhaps calling somebody in plural sort of supposes that they are considered something greater than just a mere man, some sort of acknowledgment of other person's worthiness.

It is almost nonexistant in Latvian in 3d form, except as a joke, but I think I read some literature, which kinda shows that in 19th c or earlier Russian it was also that respectful address used 3d person plural form, such as when servants were talking to somebody external about their master:

- What is his highness doing, Petr?
- They (or Them) are breaking their fast, then they are going to see the races.

Etc.
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From:[info]dominika
Date:September 24th, 2014 - 02:29 pm
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Mums skolā mācīja, ka "jūs" uzruna cēlusies no Senās Romas, kad tur vienbrīd vienlaikus valdījuši divi imperatori, tāpēc uzrunāti dsk. un tā tas iegājies, ka augsti stāvošas personas jāuzrunā "jūs". Mīlīga basņa.
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From:[info]brookings
Date:September 24th, 2014 - 03:21 pm
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Jā - the Royal 'we'. Pofig par gramatiku - īsts iemesls slēpās tajā formalitātē: addressing the role of formal personages (person - through sound - through the masks the actors wear), addressing the individual and the formal personage together

laikam

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