thanks - there is this, though, from the ideologically correct Guardian:

Healthy boys may be more likely to be admitted to hospital with a rare side-effect of the Pfizer/BioNTech Covid vaccine that causes inflammation of the heart than with Covid itself, US researchers claim.

Their analysis of medical data suggests that boys aged 12 to 15, with no underlying medical conditions, are four to six times more likely to be diagnosed with vaccine-related myocarditis than ending up in hospital with Covid over a four-month period.

Most children who experienced the rare side-effect had symptoms within days of the second shot of Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine, though a similar side-effect is seen with the Moderna jab. About 86% of the boys affected required some hospital care, the authors said.

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https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/the-real-risk-of-heart-inflammation-to-kids-is-from-covid-19not-the-vaccine

"Yet review of more than two dozen articles in peer-reviewed medical journals, government documents, and interviews with 10 pediatric cardiologists and pediatricians offer a reassuring picture of the safety of pediatric COVID-19 vaccination. Myocarditis after the vaccine is rarer and usually milder than the cardiac complications from COVID-19, including those from multisystem inflammatory syndrome (MIS-C), says Matthew Elias, a pediatric cardiologist at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia. MIS-C is a serious condition that can occur two to six weeks after an acute SARS-CoV-2 infection in about one out of 3,200 infected children, even if the infection was mild or asymptomatic. MIS-C can involve inflammation of many organs, including the heart, lungs, kidneys, brain, skin, eyes, and digestive organs. "

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https://www.who.int/news/item/24-11-2021-interim-statement-on-covid-19-vaccination-for-children-and-adolescents

"Available data suggest that the cases of myocarditis and pericarditis following vaccination are generally mild and respond to conservative treatment, and are less severe with better outcomes than classical myocarditis(21) or COVID-19. The risk of myocarditis/pericarditis associated with SARS-CoV-2 infection is higher than the risk after vaccination(21)."

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October 11th Isreal (nation of lab rabbits):
NY Times:
"Males between 16 and 29 years of age have an increased risk of developing heart problems after receiving a second dose of coronavirus vaccines made by Pfizer-BioNtech or Moderna, according to a large new analysis published on Wednesday in the New England Journal of Medicine."

"Boys between 16 and 19 years of age had the highest incidence of myocarditis after the second dose, according to a second study in the journal. The risk of heart problems in boys of that age was about nine times higher than in unvaccinated boys of the same age."

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I think we talk about two different things:
- you are focused on risk of vaccine for unvaccinated vs vaccinated
- I'm focused on risks of vaccine vs getting covid

That same NY Times article:
"Boys between 16 and 19 years of age had the highest incidence of myocarditis after the second dose, according to a second study in the journal. The risk of heart problems in boys of that age was about nine times higher than in unvaccinated boys of the same age.

The absolute risk is still very small, and the condition temporary. And studies have shown that Covid-19 is much more likely to cause heart problems compared with vaccination.
Based on data available in June, advisers to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention unanimously voted to recommend the vaccine, saying the benefits far outweighed the risk. For every million vaccinated boys ages 12 to 17, the shots might cause a maximum of 70 myocarditis cases, but would prevent 5,700 infections, 215 hospitalizations and two deaths, the agency has estimated."

I stated my point, you stated yours, I think we can agree to not talking each over each about two different topics.

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How do they record the side effects for the vaccine? There is huge controversy over the reporting on the Vaers data.

Also, the wording of - a heavily pro-vaccine - CDC, is interesting "might cause" but "would prevent". Note the change in the modal verb. Worthwhile noting when they are - essentially - speculating about both sets of numbers. The effectiveness of the vaccines in reducing transmission is, after all, much lower now than it was when these estimates were made..

Also the NY, which has to be pro-vaccine (in my opinion), states "studies have shown". Which studies? Not, I believe, the Israeli one.

Just a few comments.

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